Come on, now you’re not even talking about the right war.

You are right, I referenced the wrong source. I’m remembering the links from 15years ago when I had this argument with conservatives on Reddit who were pushing the idea that Obama was the worst president ever.

25,000 to 100,000 Iraqis were killed, overwhelmingly civilians

In other words, the 100k figure includes indirect deaths.

You cannot take a Harvard study about predicted deaths from lack of medical care and then say that reported civilian deaths from war were from indirect.

If you are going with direct civilian killings from Obama then you use the column labeled “Civilians killed as a result of U.S.-led military actions” from the earlier link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001-2021)

For example: “The UN Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA) attributed 596 Afghan civilian deaths as having been caused by international-led military forces in 2009, representing about a quarter of the 2,412 Afghan civilian deaths it recorded as having been caused by the war in 2009.”

I was including indirect for Obama.

100k figure includes indirect deaths, from things like losing power or access to medicine.

You keep imagining excuses to make Obama as bad as Bush:

100k isn’t indirect. It is direct violent death.

“Population-based studies produce estimates of the number of Iraq War casualties ranging from 151,000 violent deaths as of June 2006”

“The Iraq Body Count project documents 186,901–210,296 violent civilian deaths in their table.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

I have looked at every single source you have provided.

You said I used military when the link said civilian. You said, “But Bush is estimated.” when the Obama link also said estimated.

Where did you cite, for instance, direct civilian casualties in the Gulf War?

We only have estimates for both.

I’m not positively asserting that Obama caused more deaths than Bush Sr, I just found that claim questionable and was curious where you got it from.

Which I provided yet you continue to fight.

Based on the sources you’ve provided, the total death toll of Afghanistan was probably about twice that of the Gulf War, and roughly half of Afghanistan happened under Obama.

That isn’t true based on reported estimates.

Estimated 29k under Obama is not roughly equal to estimated 100k under Bush Sr.

I’m referring to the relationship between someone offering you more money for the same work the difference of which gets passed on to consumers.

A few consumers are going to a business and offering more money for the same work. The consumer is the business’s boss just like your boss might offer you more money. You aren’t going to turn down the raise because it will hurt other consumers just like the business isn’t going to turn down the money even though it will cost other consumers more.

and if i did i sure as hell wouldn’t care if their CEOs got a paycut to benefit the consumers

I brought that up because that wasn’t going to happen. If you get a raise, your boss isn’t going to take a paycut to make it happen. The raise comes from the consumers.

You’re looking at confirmed cases in one case and estimated cases in the other.

No, you said “military not civilian” without even checking. Once I showed it was civilian you then say “but estimated” The content of the wikipedia link I provided earlier is titled “Aggregation of estimates”.

You can’t stop looking for a way to make Bush look better than Obama. You won’t even read links or research before writing anything to make Obama look worse.

Casualties, deaths, civilian deaths, confirmed civilian deaths, direct or indirect, but you have to use the same figure in both cases.

By any measure Obama was less. I’ve shown it with sources. If you think Bush was better than Obama, show your sources.

I swear, every time I demonstrate good faith

Because we were talking about deaths, I used a small number and you then added wounded as a rebuttal instead of agreeing that Obama didn’t kill as many. No matter how much data I show, you keep trying to make Obama worse than Bush.

You’re looking at confirmed civilian casualties in Afghanistan, but total deaths in the Gulf War.

No I’m not. https://www.forcesnews.com/news/remembering-gulf-war-key-facts-figures

She was re elected even after the “He learned his lesson.” ridiculousness. Americans are the problem.

The money is fixed. You getting a raise means the money has to come from somewhere- which means the boss taking a pay cut or the customers paying more.

You are adding wounded to Obama but not Bush Sr to make Obama look worse. That’s exactly the problem I described at the start.

Including wounded Obama is still less than the 100,000-200,000 killed by Bush Sr.

I don’t know why it doesn’t add up.

Doing the math year by year from UN data: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001-2021)

The UN Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA) recorded 2,412 Afghan civilian deaths in the American-led war in 2009 The UN Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA) and the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC) recorded 2,777 Afghan civilian deaths in the American-led war in 2010 For the whole year of 2011, the United Nations reported that the civilian death toll numbered 3,021, a record high. In addition, 4,507 Afghans were wounded A 2012 report by the UN Assistance Mission in Afghanistan noted that the number of Afghan civilians killed or injured in 2012 decreased for the first time since the United Nations began keeping track of such figures.[64] 2,769 civilian deaths (2013) The UN recorded 2,969 civilian deaths 2014 Overall, according to the UN, 3,710 civilians were killed 2015 The UN estimates that 3,545 civilians were killed 2016 The UN estimates that in 2016 3,498 civilians were killed

2412+2777+3021+4507+2769+2969+3710+3545+3498 = 29208.

If your boss offered you a raise for the same work, would you turn it down?

A mismatch between supply and demand is called a shortage. The source is irrelevant.

You think companies would cut off ad revenue and pass cost savings to customers?

Fridges will get MORE expensive to ensure that you see ads on your fridge.

The chart clearly shows 80k in 2016?

The chart has total in red and yearly in orange.

The graphs show that Afghanistan casualties were flat

https://www.statista.com/chart/20932/afghanistan-civilian-casualties-in-last-decade/?srsltid=AfmBOorw0E6-ZCL-OnLzljFLq8mSXw1D0XIQXn7QXZNhCI0sDTcuXFhm

It’s of particular interest that there is no data until 2009. Bush had made everything about the war secret and didn’t collect or release numbers. Do you really think the initial invasion which included all of NATO had less casualties?

. If roughly half the deaths in Afghanistan were under Obama,

The data shows ~6k per year which is 48k over 8 years.

Considering the hundreds of thousands of people he had killed in Iraq and Afghanistan,

Iraq was effectively over when Obama started and Afghanistan slowed too by the end of Obamas second term.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Body_Count_project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan

Bush Sr: 100-200k https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll

It is a California government coastal erosion photo that included Barbara Streisand’s house. She sued to remove it from the internet because she believed it was an invasion of her privacy.

Both make you a deeply unserious person not worth listening to.

You insult because you know you are wrong.

They aren’t a niche on Lemmy. They were everywhere before the election.