Do you think “idiot” and “moron” are offensive to the mentally handicapped? Are they unacceptably ableist?
This popped up elsewhere in this dumpster fire. I eliminated moron (which was specifically called out) from my dictionary because I’ll put my money where my mouth is. Further, the idea of shaming people for lacking knowledge is by itself problematic. Intelligence in general is not a single factor but context specific. I don’t know a lot about a lot of things and that doesn’t make me a worse person, those just aren’t my fields. XKCD’s lucky 10000 is a great example of why shaming people into pretending they know things makes the world worse. Bear in mind, pride in not knowing things is foolish and worth derision.
feel a distinct and strong disgust for anti-intellectuals and dumb shit rightwingers that softer insults do not even make qualification for let alone rank for casual usage where I’m not necessarily trying to get creative.
I understand that one. I agree with the sentiment even if I disagree with the execution. I’d offer alternatives if I had them, but I’m burned on the whole thing for the moment. End of the day I really don’t want to insult people really.
Using the r-slur doesn’t do that.
That’s kinda my point. The group that the r-slur maligns is not one prone to violence or aggregated enough that people feel the need to check themselves. If I remember right (not looking up studies right now so I’ll eat my words if I’m wrong), the mentally disabled are far more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators thereof. Might be crossing my wires with mental illness, but you get my point. It’s not the best that the only reason certain groups aren’t given respect is because they aren’t prone to harming those that disrespect them, often to their detriment.
I don’t consider this taking cultural ideas from the right.
And the ramp up in disdain for the usage of word happened leading up to Trump’s first electoral victory in 2016.
Not even close. I lived through that word dying off in middle school. Early to mid aughts. In my small town it became taboo to say fairly rapidly.
Its not baseline. Its obviously still a debate, a stubborn one as well.
It isn’t and that’s my problem. I am prone to naivete and acting how I think the world should work. It’s a thing I struggle with. In my (paltry) defense, the debate died like 20 years ago and assholes brought it back.
Aside: I appreciate the candid debate. Many thanks.
This popped up elsewhere in this dumpster fire. I eliminated moron (which was specifically called out) from my dictionary because I’ll put my money where my mouth is.
Idiot has a similar history. Most clinical terms and words describing someone with an intellectual disability ends up turned into an insult.
Further, the idea of shaming people for lacking knowledge is by itself problematic. Intelligence in general is not a single factor but context specific. I don’t know a lot about a lot of things and that doesn’t make me a worse person, those just aren’t my fields. XKCD’s lucky 10000 is a great example of why shaming people into pretending they know things makes the world worse. Bear in mind, pride in not knowing things is foolish and worth derision.
Its not even pride necessarily, sometimes its an active mental shield and I find both revolting. Refusing to see the truth of something for mental comfort is pathetic and extremely selfish. I’m not a virtue ethicist, but emotionally I am one towards people like this. In order to make the most ethical decisions, you need to face the truth. By purposefully avoiding the truth: rational ethical decisions become impossible, meaning anyone who does this is just a straight up bad person.
Not even close. I lived through that word dying off in middle school. Early to mid aughts. In my small town it became taboo to say fairly rapidly.
I guess I’m mostly referring to internet usage as well as its taboo nature being equivalent to swearing or using expletives which are merely not acceptable around authority’s, stuffy people, at school, or at work. I remember playing online games among even progressive people who would call people the r-slur a lot as late as 2014 or interacting on Forums, Reddit, Twitter, etc and seeing the word thrown around. Among my friends (who were democrats, while I was a republican because my dad said we were lol) they would call people retards when teachers were not around.
Outside of the main topic:
If I remember right (not looking up studies right now so I’ll eat my words if I’m wrong), the mentally disabled are far more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators thereof. Might be crossing my wires with mental illness
Also without looking it up, pretty sure both are correct. Though with the asterisk that mental illness includes a broad variety and that many of the “violent” mental illnesses are more rare than the non-violent ones. Untreated schizophrenia, bipolar, NPD, ASPD, most substance abuse disorders, and even ADHD all have associations with higher rates of committing violence compared to the average. Its just that for every 1 person with one of those there are like 5-10 people with PTSD, generalized anxiety disorder, eating disorder, chronic depression, autism, etc who are significantly less likely to be violent, so they drag down the average. And almost all of them are more likely to be victims than perpetrators.
Aside: I appreciate the candid debate. Many thanks.
I unironically love good faith and intellectually honest debate. It gives me energy.
Idiot has a similar history. Most clinical terms and words describing someone with an intellectual disability ends up turned into an insult.
This whole thing has me soured on using lack of intelligence as in insult, because it shouldn’t be. We’re more than what we know or the ease in which we learn things. It feels old-timey to use it, but foolish feels a better term for what should be an undesirable trait. Along the lines of reveling in ones ignorance is a thing that shouldn’t be encouraged. Could just be my internal dictionary on that one.
meaning anyone who does this is just a straight up bad person.
Complete and utter agreement. No caveats. Capital T Truth is one of the very few things I’d call ‘sacred’ (gross religious connotations aside).
I guess I’m mostly referring to internet usage as well
That’s fair. I’m the weird millennial that really didn’t do forums or vaguely social internet things back in the day. And I think I forget how edgy the internet back then was. This kids, is why anecdote is an incomplete source of knowledge.
I unironically love good faith and intellectually honest debate. It gives me energy.
It’s too bad they’re so few and far between. It’s that good faith bit that’s so hard to get. Engaging in a way that leaves me open to being wrong and understanding more is delightful, even if the topic is not necessarily so.
This popped up elsewhere in this dumpster fire. I eliminated moron (which was specifically called out) from my dictionary because I’ll put my money where my mouth is. Further, the idea of shaming people for lacking knowledge is by itself problematic. Intelligence in general is not a single factor but context specific. I don’t know a lot about a lot of things and that doesn’t make me a worse person, those just aren’t my fields. XKCD’s lucky 10000 is a great example of why shaming people into pretending they know things makes the world worse. Bear in mind, pride in not knowing things is foolish and worth derision.
I understand that one. I agree with the sentiment even if I disagree with the execution. I’d offer alternatives if I had them, but I’m burned on the whole thing for the moment. End of the day I really don’t want to insult people really.
That’s kinda my point. The group that the r-slur maligns is not one prone to violence or aggregated enough that people feel the need to check themselves. If I remember right (not looking up studies right now so I’ll eat my words if I’m wrong), the mentally disabled are far more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators thereof. Might be crossing my wires with mental illness, but you get my point. It’s not the best that the only reason certain groups aren’t given respect is because they aren’t prone to harming those that disrespect them, often to their detriment.
According to the New York Times, that’s exactly where it came from. Posts from Harmeet K. Dhillon, the assistant attorney general overseeing the Justice* Department’s Civil Rights Division posted it in some knitting. Joe Rogan said “The word ‘retarded’ is back”.
Not even close. I lived through that word dying off in middle school. Early to mid aughts. In my small town it became taboo to say fairly rapidly.
It isn’t and that’s my problem. I am prone to naivete and acting how I think the world should work. It’s a thing I struggle with. In my (paltry) defense, the debate died like 20 years ago and assholes brought it back.
Aside: I appreciate the candid debate. Many thanks.
Idiot has a similar history. Most clinical terms and words describing someone with an intellectual disability ends up turned into an insult.
Its not even pride necessarily, sometimes its an active mental shield and I find both revolting. Refusing to see the truth of something for mental comfort is pathetic and extremely selfish. I’m not a virtue ethicist, but emotionally I am one towards people like this. In order to make the most ethical decisions, you need to face the truth. By purposefully avoiding the truth: rational ethical decisions become impossible, meaning anyone who does this is just a straight up bad person.
I guess I’m mostly referring to internet usage as well as its taboo nature being equivalent to swearing or using expletives which are merely not acceptable around authority’s, stuffy people, at school, or at work. I remember playing online games among even progressive people who would call people the r-slur a lot as late as 2014 or interacting on Forums, Reddit, Twitter, etc and seeing the word thrown around. Among my friends (who were democrats, while I was a republican because my dad said we were lol) they would call people retards when teachers were not around.
Outside of the main topic:
Also without looking it up, pretty sure both are correct. Though with the asterisk that mental illness includes a broad variety and that many of the “violent” mental illnesses are more rare than the non-violent ones. Untreated schizophrenia, bipolar, NPD, ASPD, most substance abuse disorders, and even ADHD all have associations with higher rates of committing violence compared to the average. Its just that for every 1 person with one of those there are like 5-10 people with PTSD, generalized anxiety disorder, eating disorder, chronic depression, autism, etc who are significantly less likely to be violent, so they drag down the average. And almost all of them are more likely to be victims than perpetrators.
I unironically love good faith and intellectually honest debate. It gives me energy.
This whole thing has me soured on using lack of intelligence as in insult, because it shouldn’t be. We’re more than what we know or the ease in which we learn things. It feels old-timey to use it, but foolish feels a better term for what should be an undesirable trait. Along the lines of reveling in ones ignorance is a thing that shouldn’t be encouraged. Could just be my internal dictionary on that one.
Complete and utter agreement. No caveats. Capital T Truth is one of the very few things I’d call ‘sacred’ (gross religious connotations aside).
That’s fair. I’m the weird millennial that really didn’t do forums or vaguely social internet things back in the day. And I think I forget how edgy the internet back then was. This kids, is why anecdote is an incomplete source of knowledge.
It’s too bad they’re so few and far between. It’s that good faith bit that’s so hard to get. Engaging in a way that leaves me open to being wrong and understanding more is delightful, even if the topic is not necessarily so.