- cross-posted to:
- privacy@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- privacy@programming.dev
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Let’s see if it gets released before GrapheneOS and unlockable bootloader get outlawed
OEM, they can lock the bootloader. So at least there’s that
That’s the point, right? Google is trying to lock down Android even more, and third party vendors can see the increasing risk. If they fork now, they can maybe undercut the increasing monopoly efforts.
I am sure they are also seeing a growing demand for more privacy, the only reason own a pixel is because of GrapheneOS. If I could buy a phone with the OS pre installed I would, don’t know if they are going to do that. Also, by patterning with GrapheneOS they don’t has the development cost and they can trade on Graphenes name
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That’s nice, but how much will those phones cost? Will GrapheneOS be an option on the low end devices or will they only support “some” devices, which happen cost as much as a Pixel anyway?
While the Motorola/GrapheneOS news is interesting, it’s a shame that GrapheneOS’s lack of root access continues to be a significant limitation. For users who prioritize data ownership and the ability to create full, local backups (Swift Backup being a prime example), it’s simply not a viable option. Security is important, but so is control over your own data.
Have you seen the “Shizuku” app? It utilises the debugging api to give some extra permissions that regular apps wouldn’t usually get. Works on GrapheneOS and can give SwiftBackup a lot more power on devices that can’t grant root access. You might find you don’t need full rooting.
I think most people here don’t really understand what’s going on here. Graphene OS is an Android mod with some extra security features designed to run on a hardened hardware. The main goal of Graphene OS is to protect users from some very specific attacks like some devices police uses to unlock phones or some targeted hacks by state actors. Unless you’re worried you may be targeted by such an attack and have some date you need to protect from them you don’t really need Graphene OS. You can run any of the other deGoogles Android mods on any hardware that supports it. You can already buy phones with pre-installed /e/ of iode ROMs. Many other phones support Lineage OS. Also, let’s keep in mind that GrapheneOS only supports Pixel because they don’t want to allow people to run their OS on hardware they don’t think is secure enough. It’s their choice not to support other phones.
Also, Google still controls AOSP so this does not solve any of the bigger Android issues. Motorola forking AOSP and providing the resourced needed to keep the development going would be amazing news. This is just one phone maker promising to fulfill the security requirements of Graphene OS. It’s basically like Dell offering Ubuntu laptops. Good news but it will not have a big impact on the ecosystem.
It’s not just degoogling is the reason for using grapheneos. There are many other user friendly controls. For instance, you block apps from network use, so your click farming game doesn’t track everything about you.
iode has a build in app that let’s you automatically block trackers for each app. You can manage internet connection and allow specific trackers separately for each app. I think internet access is a basic Android permission, any ROM can just block internet access for apps. I’ve used iode before, I’m using Graphene OS now. If restoring all the apps wasn’t such a pain in the ass I would go back to iode. It also had a nice ‘long press’ navigation button shortcut feature, pattern unlock for the lockscreen and automated backups to self hosted ownCloud instance. Graphene OS is good but it’s not a game changer.
Nice try officer.
If you’re worried about police getting your data you’re already using GrapheneOS on a Pixel device. This is good news for you because you will have more options when changing phones in the future but not really a game changer in any way.
This is nonsense. Everyone needs the most secure phone possible, especially considering it’s the only device some people will ever own. None of the other de-Googled offerings come close to the security features that Graphene offers, some of which are custom built solutions. They go above and beyond what the typical ROM does, which is why it even supports a lot of banking apps that would normally be blocked.
There’s a good reason people talk about GrapheneOS a lot lately, and not any of the many alternative Android ROMs that exist.
Also, let’s keep in mind that GrapheneOS only supports Pixel because they don’t want to allow people to run their OS on hardware they don’t think is secure enough
Obviously. That’s the point: Graphene isn’t just any de-Googled ROM, it’s specifically a product designed for security-conscious users. If someone doesn’t care about security and just wants to dick around on an old Android device, they can use one of the many toy ROMs out there (like iodé)
The main goal of Graphene OS is to protect users from some very specific attacks like some devices police uses to unlock phones or some targeted hacks by state actors.
That’s simply not true. It does do those things, but that’s not “the main goal”. Not sure where you got that from?
This is nonsense. Everyone needs the most secure phone possible,
This is nonsense. GrapheneOS is like 0.00001% of the market. Almost everyone in the world manages to survive just fine “dicking around on an old Android”. Only people that can be targeted by state actors really need GrapheneOS. Most people when forced to choose between unlocking their phones or being denied entry to a country, being stopped from boarding a plane or simply spending some time in jail will quickly unlock the phone and hand it over to police. Having extra secure OS is meaningless to them.
I understand you have some sensitive data on your phone and you would rather be detained than unlock it and that’s fine. Graphene OS is for you. I’m sure you’re already using it on a Pixel device. Motorola will offer you more options but that’s it. Not much will change.
Reproducible builds and lack of telemetry, plus hardening against compromise (by any actors) is my personal use case. I only run free/libre infrastructure privately, and hope to move on to open/libre hardware in future.
Yes. Controlling telemetry data transmission is why I run GrapheneOS.
But how is that significantly more secure than LineageOS? I have read through countless blog posts from GrapheneOS developers and have not yet encountered an explanation that is sufficiently convincing. Outside of additional security hardening, which is definitely a big pro, GrapheneOS doesn’t have many things that LineageOS doesn’t. LineageOS is fully FOSS and telemetry-free. They introduced the “Trust” control panel for managing all sorts of privacy and security matters. They have PIN scramble.
The only major, obvious security vulnerability lies in the proprietary driver blobs from the device vendors / OEMs. But AFAIK Google Pixels also have those, right? So outside of doubtlessly valuable measures like restricting malicious reprogramming / access through the USB port, in what ways is GrapheneOS actually more secure than LineageOS?
in what ways is GrapheneOS actually more secure than LineageOS?
In many ways. This document provides a detailed overview of Graphene’s unique features, and is worth a skim even if you’re unfamiliar with some of the jargon.
My very reductive summary is that Lineage is primarily focused on reviving and bringing modern features to old devices, whereas Graphene is focused on hardening the security of AOSP as much as possible.
Both are de-Googled. Lineage is good for e-waste prevention, but not security. You will never be able to secure a device that can’t receive kernel updates because the OEM abandoned it, and “state actors” are certainly not the only people who can exploit those vulnerabilities.
If you live in the united states, then you DO need protection against police and state attacks.
I never said you don’t. I’m saying that if you DO need it you should be running GrapheneOS on a Pixel already. If you can wait a year or two until this phone comes out it’s clearly not a “must have” for you.
Fair point. I really do wish it were more than “Pixel, or MotorolaSoonTM” for hardware choices. Who knows, though. Maybe other manufacturers will join the party.
W Moto ❤️🩹
I remember my original Moto G. It was a good phone for the time. I will follow Graphene wherever they go until a Linux phone is ready.
Hello Moto!
SailfishOS runs in Jolla phones (linux) and PostmarketOS is doing strides.
Unfortunately, SailfishOS is not FOSS, and FOSS must be the basis of all trust, or else you have no idea to tell what kind of software (spyware) the vendor is operating on your phone. At least Jolla is starting to open-source some traditionally proprietary components.
I looked at their latest phone on their website. The specs look better than some of the other Linux manufacturers. They finally ditched the 720p display that was holding back the Pine, Jolla, and similar Linux devices for an FHD panel. I appreciate that they are differentiating on user-benefitting hardware features like swappable batteries, SD cards, and headphone jacks seems like a smart strategy as these are things mainstream manufacturers largely refuse to implement but are popular among a good chunk of users. Sure, there will be a mainstream phone with a brighter screen, faster processor, better “features”, but it looks like the hardware is finally on par with the rest of the market. I’m really happy to see this!
This is crazy big news.
Guess I know which brand my next smartphone upgrade will be.
If they did some nice 7" tablets too, that would be perfect.
Lenovo/Moto is weird about that… The android phones and android tablets have next to nothing to do with each other.
I do have a couple of their tablets and like them well enough, but you might as well consider them an entirely different vendor versus the Moto phone part of the business.
Well that’s a shame.
I’ve been looking around for a replacement to my aged Samsung A6 (which has been given an extended life by replacing the factory ROM with something with less bloatware, but is still pretty limited in terms of memory) which is not a Surveillance Outpost for just who knows how many nations and just about any companies willing to pay the 3 cents of whatever for the data, and all the Linux and degoogled Android makers only have 10"+ ones, which are too big for my use case which carry a tablet on a coat or trousers back pocket when I’m going to be sitting down somewhere and waiting for something so that I can read books and maybe browse the internet on their free WiFi.
Personally I would LOOOVE a small Linux tablet, but I’m OK with some kind of privacy respecting Android which isn’t riddled with backdoors mandated by governments which have Information Courts issuing Secret Bulk Information Collecting Orders, like the US and the UK.
“Hello Moto” (iust my first, unfiltered thought)
Can someone ELI5 me what’s so special about Google’s SoCs that no other manufacturer could do (preferably citing sources not involved)?
I still find it weird that a major manufacturer would bother with a ROM.I always thought Pixel was the platform to have for fucking around with the OS and stuff. Of fucking course I was an idiot.
“Embrace, Extend, Extinguish”. When have they ever done otherwise.
Point of order: That was Microsoft rather than Google.
Yeah, I’m aware that Microsoft coined that phrase, but Google seems to be doing something quite similar.
Google embraced the creation of an open-sourced Android project, extended its capabilities with centralized software distribution, and is now extinguishing by forcing developers to comply with its new requirements and banning third-party app stores.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Don’t be too hard on yourself, they definitely put money and effort into influencing opinions in all the subversive ways they can manage. But also, let this be a lesson to always check alternatives and their reason for existing. I consider it part of best practices.
The reason I got my ZFold5 was I like the fact that it could open up and give me a larger area to view and bigger keyboard. I have gotten the biggest phone I could get for the last 15 years or so because I have a hard time seeing the tiny screens. I would be happy to switch to a new OS but my old ass needs a bigger screen.
This is actually supported by GrapheneOS currently, if you need that extra push. 😉Gonna be my next phone for that reason. Oh, and it’s bendy. XD
You need one of these!
WTF who makes that? EDIT— Samsung. I really want something I can put Graphine on.
Nah, this is Huawei’s offering. Came out in late 2024. It’s called the Mate XT.
And it’s China exclusive. You definitely can’t put GraphineOS on this baby.
Guess who just added 5 different AI Sloperators into their OS lmao.
Xiaomi is coming out with the Mix Trifold in Q3, xiaomi phones are unlockabke, though its a pain. You might be able to install LineageOS on it.
Oh geez. I bet thats expensive
Can’t you get data on some tablets? Sounds like that’s what they need!
Very interesting, I’ll keep an eye on Motorola phones. Not that I need a new one anytime soon, but still that’s the kind of thing that could be refreshing to read news about.
great
I recently picked up a 2024 model moto g power 5g. The main reason is that I needed the cheapest smart phone I could find locally to test a new provider (phreeli) before committing. That, and to serve as a ready backup if one of ours dies. $115 at a big box store.
It’s… fine. Even after debloating I get about half the battery life of my galaxy s20 which is now 5 years old. I haven’t been able to figure out what’s eating it, or maybe it just has a smaller battery… I should check that.
