• Sarah Valentine (she/her)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    3 days ago

    I wouldn’t consider it in a vacuum. I also look at intent and consequences. Did they omit info to gain advantage over others, or were they refusing to tell a Nazi where they hid the jews? Did their choice lead to a better outcome for everyone, or did it cause chaos and disrupt lives needlessly?

    Everyone going “duh it’s still a lie” - calling someone a liar carries a specific connotation which I don’t think applies in all cases of so-called “lies”. To me, a lie carries with it not just an intentional falsehood but an accusation or an accusable misdeed. I wouldn’t call someone a liar because they hid jews from nazis.

    • Korhaka@sopuli.xyz
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      3 days ago

      Pretty sure not telling the nazi is still a lie. But an example of when it is ethical to lie.

    • SaltSong@startrek.website
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      3 days ago

      You are either answering the wrong question, or are defining a lie based on some criteria I don’t recognize.

      Telling a Nazi there are no Jews in my basement is a lie. The only way it’s not a lie is if there are, in fact, no Jews in my basement. But it is not wrong to lie to a Nazi.

    • charokol@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      A lie is still a lie, even if it’s told to a Nazi or if there’s an otherwise good outcome

    • rynn@piefed.social
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      3 days ago

      Your point highlights the fact that lies are a tool. The intentional omission is a lie.

      Judgment about the tool’s use is subjective.

      Everyone uses this tool. Calling someone a liar is either calling them a human or it means you’re saying they use the tool more than they should which is yet another subjective judgment.

        • rynn@piefed.social
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          3 days ago

          I agree, and it’s hard to educate because people don’t want to admit to using this tool at all.

          Doesn’t change the fact that it is a tool and its use is subject to judgment.